What is needed to post info on track days???

[Lizard 1]

Was told my thread was pulled because I was advertising STT's track days at Bluegrass...

Have asked to let me know how I can do this properly. I have yet to get an answer after 4 days... I know it isn't just one person so, can any mod or website person let me in on how I can do this?

We have a LOT of track day riders on this site and hell, there's at least 5 of the members who are instructors down at BG. I just want guys and gals to know what's going on down there.

STT is not a conflict with any sponsors on this site so, not sure what can be done to make sure it is legit...

Any help please? Events are going to be starting up and people have been assking...

[bprodoehl]

I am not a moderator, but to advertise a business you need to be a sponser, which if things are still the same as when holeshot was a sponser is very reasonable.

After holeshot stopped sponsering the site, I called the mods personally to ask prior to advertising events or sales at holeshot. It may have helped that I was no longer working with holeshot when asking.

Give me your contact info in a PM and I will talk with the mods myself.

[ped]

money makes things odd...

[Lizard 1]

I am not a moderator, but to advertise a business you need to be a sponser, which if things are still the same as when holeshot was a sponser is very reasonable.

After holeshot stopped sponsering the site, I called the mods personally to ask prior to advertising events or sales at holeshot. It may have helped that I was no longer working with holeshot when asking.

Give me your contact info in a PM and I will talk with the mods myself.


But the thing is that there are SEVERAL posts and threads from guys saying Cycle Options is at Putnam, guys asking to get a track day event and needing certain number of riders, Desmo Ohio events and costs, etc.

Not advertising anything but rather stating what is going on. I mean, guys are posting links to ebay and craigslist. This goees against dealers that are sponsors or even the classified section on this site...

I just want to supply info about track days. That's it. No link, just info and cost and when it is happening at Bluegrass. Its local to a LOT of riders on this site...

[Kanatuna]

I would have to agree with you Lizard... I myself have posted about Putnam and Cycle Options etc. with no problems many times. Sounds like they don't think your pretty enough or something.... lol:cry

So....would talking about Putnam be advertising Putnam? Discussing your thoughts on STT be advertising? Hell....would talking about Kawasaki be advertising them too? WTF?

[kingofkentucky]

Politics bro....

[brn6604]

Shhhh! Don't tell anyone. I don't want these events to fill up months in advance. ;)

Better for me if nobody knows...

[Lizard 1]

Politics bro....

I think it very well may be that exact thing. I'm going to make another post this weekend and make it as general as I can similar to what Brandon and others have when they advertise Putnam and other events similar.

I just cannot understand why it is an issue. They don't really care for me, but this is somewhat silly...

[kingofkentucky]

I think it very well may be that exact thing. I'm going to make another post this weekend and make it as general as I can similar to what Brandon and others have when they advertise Putnam and other events similar.

I just cannot understand why it is an issue. They don't really care for me, but this is somewhat silly...

If u get a chance PM me with the info. (Just in case the post gets deleted again). I'm thinking of doing a few track days this year. I only have one under my belt and the conditions wasn't the greatest.

[kyzrex]

personally, I can't see why posting info about track days is a problem for anyone. I welcome the information and beleive that 99% of the people here do also. It's not like you are trying to promote a concert or something......it's a MOTORCYCLE event!

I was wondering why the info was gone, and by the way, I passed the info along to the Kentucky Sportbike site, and nobody complained about it there.

patrick

[Lizard 1]

personally, I can't see why posting info about track days is a problem for anyone. I welcome the information and beleive that 99% of the people here do also. It's not like you are trying to promote a concert or something......it's a MOTORCYCLE event!

I was wondering why the info was gone, and by the way, I passed the info along to the Kentucky Sportbike site, and nobody complained about it there.

patrick


PM me a link to that site. Pretty good site?

[Lizard 1]

If u get a chance PM me with the info. (Just in case the post gets deleted again). I'm thinking of doing a few track days this year. I only have one under my belt and the conditions wasn't the greatest.

I'll post this weekend and PM you what I posted so you have it...

[kyzrex]

PM me a link to that site. Pretty good site?

pm sent.....good site

[serpentracer]

some of the "ways" of this site gets on my nerves at times.

[ped]

hmm.. i concur, a slight relaxation of the sphincter type may go a long way...

[shakenbake]

Did some one say Bung Hole?

What's the big deal? Lizard is not paid by STT for any thing, he is not a paid employee of STT. He is just passing along info.

No differnt than posting street rides or dual sport rides, or trail rides.

The Junkies posted for a track day that they posed as theirs and that was just fine.....What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[rklutts]

For what it's worth... I rode with STT for my first track day last fall at Mid-Ohio and it was a great time... so great that I have no signed up as a member and will be attending many of there events at local tracks like BG, Mid-O and Putnam. They really take the time to work with the "newbie's" and you don't have to jump through all these hoops to get your bike on track.

So my guess is I will be seeing a few of you this summer and more hopefully your seeing my ass as I pass you!

[fzrkentucky]

Gotta love them haters. If you only have 15 haters, you need 20 by summer. The more haters you have the better you must be doing in life.

[witttom]

Gotta love them haters. If you only have 15 haters, you need 20 by summer. The more haters you have the better you must be doing in life.
Some must be doing exceptional well then. ;)

[witttom]

Just a little review....

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[fzrkentucky]

Some must be doing exceptional well then. ;)
Yes they are.:smash: :rolleyes:

[Lizard 1]

Just a little review....

This is a great example of why my post SHOULDN'T be an issue. I have no ownership, I am not employed, I am not directing people or promoting people to any forums, etc...

I have also tried rather relentlessly to get an answer and to no avail. I will post a new thread and see what happens. Stay tuned!

[Lizard 1]

Did some one say Bung Hole?

What's the big deal? Lizard is not paid by STT for any thing, he is not a paid employee of STT. He is just passing along info.

No differnt than posting street rides or dual sport rides, or trail rides.

The Junkies posted for a track day that they posed as theirs and that was just fine.....What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Thanks, Mike. I actually stated that in my PM. I think that people assume that I am paid and that I am somehow making money on all this... Not the case. Just passing along info and I even used the Junkies posts as an example of being allowed vs. mine not being allowed... No disrespect to the Junkies as i think it is fine, but just used it as an example...

[witttom]

This is a great example of why my post SHOULDN'T be an issue. I have no ownership, I am not employed, I am not directing people or promoting people to any forums, etc...

I have also tried rather relentlessly to get an answer and to no avail. I will post a new thread and see what happens. Stay tuned!

I guess the admin monkey has a different definition and perspective of what vested interest you have in STT (vested interest does not necessarily mean you have to be getting paid), and with as much debate as I've seen in the past of STT vs Fasttrax, perhaps that has something to do with it. Perhaps. Fasttrax and been a LR Sponsor for a really long time. Are they still? I'm not even sure, but I assume that they are. Posting a new thread is your choice, but if it was removed once before then I would suspect it to likely be removed again. I also suspect you may have just caught the admin(s) at a bad time. The most active admins, I believe have just been really busy lately.

[Lizard 1]

I guess the admin monkey has a different definition and perspective of what vested interest you have in STT (vested interest does not necessarily mean you have to be getting paid), and with as much debate as I've seen in the past of STT vs Fasttrax, perhaps that has something to do with it. Perhaps. Fasttrax and been a LR Sponsor for a really long time. Are they still? I'm not even sure, but I assume that they are. Posting a new thread is your choice, but if it was removed once before then I would suspect it to likely be removed again. I also suspect you may have just caught the admin(s) at a bad time. The most active admins, I believe have just been really busy lately.

I understand the side you speak of. However, there are at least 5 other members here that are working with STT as instructors. I posted a thread as you will see and included EVERYONE that will be at BG. That means WERA, FT and STT. No links at all and dates from everyone so there is no bias.

I just think that people should be aware of what events for riders is going on. No different than posting rides or charities or events that could be conflicting with sponsors or areas of the site itself. I think as riders, everyone deserves to know what is going on.

I respect the FT sponsorship and realize they pay to advertise. However, BG is close to a majority of the posters on this site. I just thought that it made sense.

If I wanted to promote STT, I would have listed all the area dates they do in MI, OH, PA and IN...

[witttom]

I posted a thread as you will see and included EVERYONE that will be at BG.
In my OPINION, what you posted today is different than what you posted a few days ago. Yes, it contains the same info but it's HOW you posted it.

[Lizard 1]

In my OPINION, what you posted today is different than what you posted a few days ago. Yes, it contains the same info but it's HOW you posted it.


Well, at least you let me know an idea as to why. I still don't think it was too bad, but can see where it might have gone "grey"... So, you think the newest post including everyone else's schedules is good? Appreciate the feedback.

[ttam7777]

Do you concur, doctor?

[ipassedu2]

If i broke any rules i am sorry. I just want people to go to the track. If they have to do it with STT then so be it lol.

[Kanatuna]

I guess the admin monkey has a different definition and perspective of what vested interest you have in STT (vested interest does not necessarily mean you have to be getting paid), and with as much debate as I've seen in the past of STT vs Fasttrax, perhaps that has something to do with it. Perhaps. Fasttrax and been a LR Sponsor for a really long time. Are they still? I'm not even sure, but I assume that they are. Posting a new thread is your choice, but if it was removed once before then I would suspect it to likely be removed again. I also suspect you may have just caught the admin(s) at a bad time. The most active admins, I believe have just been really busy lately.

I have a vested interest in getting information on upcoming events such as track days, races and other such information. Thanks for letting this post stay.....thus far.:mrt:

[RBlack1300]

Well, at least you let me know an idea as to why. I still don't think it was too bad, but can see where it might have gone "grey"... So, you think the newest post including everyone else's schedules is good? Appreciate the feedback.

Seems like its VERY grey around here when it comes to that stuff.

PM me some time - I can tell you some GOOD stories.

[WOZERD]

Can't we just go to the website and see the schedule?

[admin]

Was told my thread was pulled because I was advertising STT's track days at Bluegrass...

Have asked to let me know how I can do this properly. I have yet to get an answer after 4 days... I know it isn't just one person so, can any mod or website person let me in on how I can do this?

We have a LOT of track day riders on this site and hell, there's at least 5 of the members who are instructors down at BG. I just want guys and gals to know what's going on down there.

STT is not a conflict with any sponsors on this site so, not sure what can be done to make sure it is legit...

Any help please? Events are going to be starting up and people have been assking...

This is exactly on how you were told about thread being removed.

FYI Thread Removed

We can't allow this STT promotion/advertising for STT because your are STT staff member and STT is not a sponsor.



We discussed this behind the scenes because your listed on STT as a staff member and have stated a few times on this site about being a STT instructor that makes your posts promoting STT not acceptable.

End of story.... So don't twist the topic to make it sound different than what it is.

[WOZERD]

This is a great example of why my post SHOULDN'T be an issue. I have no ownership, I am not employed, I am not directing people or promoting people to any forums, etc...

I have also tried rather relentlessly to get an answer and to no avail. I will post a new thread and see what happens. Stay tuned!


Lizard-- do you know this guy? He lives in the same town as you! And, the same number! What a coincidence eh?
I found this on STT's website!

(I think they are a great organization personally.)

STT Trackday Instructor
Name: Brian Healea
Profession: Motorcycle Industry Rep
Hometown: Mount Gilead, OH
Birthplace: Mansfield, OH
Education: Ohio State and Columbus State - Business
Current Bikes: GSXR750
Recent Highlights: I actually beat my son in MX vs ATV Untamed.
Hobbies: Anything to do with motorcycles.
Best advice I would give someone for track days: Listen, watch, ask questions and above all - DON'T be afraid to approach the instructors - they are there to help and we love doing so. Above all - HAVE FUN!!!

[WOZERD]

Seems like its VERY grey around here when it comes to that stuff.

PM me some time - I can tell you some GOOD stories.

UH-OH! Take the bait.

[WOZERD]

This is a great example of why my post SHOULDN'T be an issue. I have no ownership, I am not employed, I am not directing people or promoting people to any forums, etc...

I have also tried rather relentlessly to get an answer and to no avail. I will post a new thread and see what happens. Stay tuned!
########################################
Did you quit?
<TABLE class=tborder id=post114591 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d1d1e1 0px solid; BORDER-TOP: #d1d1e1 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-LEFT: #d1d1e1 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d1d1e1 1px solid">http://www.localriders.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 01-30-2009, 07:51 AM <!-- / status icon and date --></TD><TD class=thead style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d1d1e1 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #d1d1e1 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-LEFT: #d1d1e1 0px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d1d1e1 1px solid" align=right> #6 (http://www.localriders.com/forums/showpost.php?p=114591&postcount=6) </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d1d1e1 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #d1d1e1 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #d1d1e1 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d1d1e1 0px solid" width=175>Lizard 1 (http://www.localriders.com/forums/member.php?u=4199)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_114591", true); </SCRIPT>
So, you ride dem cycles?

http://www.localriders.com/forums/customavatars/avatar4199_6.gif (http://www.localriders.com/forums/member.php?u=4199)

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,959


</TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_114591 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d1d1e1 1px solid"><!-- icon and title -->Re: Fasttrax Trackdays: Nelson, BeaveRun, Bluegrass
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Apollo http://www.localriders.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.localriders.com/forums/showthread.php?p=114572#post114572)
Regardless, why don't you come and join us on an open day of practice or a race? Remember, no member fees for open track time.
:thumbsup
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Uh, I am an STT instructor...
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
"I want it so badly it's unhealthy" -- Nicky Hayden
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[Lizard 1]

This is exactly on how you were told about thread being removed.



We discussed this behind the scenes because your listed on STT as a staff member and have stated a few times on this site about being a STT instructor that makes your posts promoting STT not acceptable.

End of story.... So don't twist the topic to make it sound different than what it is.


Wasn't twisting anything and again, I asked to no response until this thread was started. I think Tom has given me an idea of what I did wrong and I appreciate his response as I think I got it right in the other new thread.

Just because I am listed as a "staff" member doesn't mean I am an employee.

I am an avid enthusiast that enjoys track racing and riding. There are a TON of those similar type of riders on this site. They come here for info at times and I thought that listing what was going on at a track near Cincy/Dayton was important to the group.

I think it has been changed, but in the end, I was never told how it was different than the threads I listed to you in the PM. After such a long period of waiting with no answer, I did the other thread. I think what Tom stated was true and I think I changed the way it was listed...

If a racer promotes a WERA event that he/she makes money at racing, is that not acceptable to promote a race at a nearby track?

What about a guy who starts a track day at a nearby track that will generate money and is needing a set number of riders. Is this not worse than just simply posting dates? Afterall, I will probably only do a handful of BG events and will primarily be at Mid-O which was never listed.

[Lizard 1]

########################################
Did you quit?
<TABLE class=tborder id=post114591 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d1d1e1 0px solid; BORDER-TOP: #d1d1e1 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-LEFT: #d1d1e1 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d1d1e1 1px solid">http://www.localriders.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 01-30-2009, 07:51 AM <!-- / status icon and date --></TD><TD class=thead style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d1d1e1 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #d1d1e1 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; BORDER-LEFT: #d1d1e1 0px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d1d1e1 1px solid" align=right> #6 (http://www.localriders.com/forums/showpost.php?p=114591&postcount=6) </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d1d1e1 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #d1d1e1 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #d1d1e1 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d1d1e1 0px solid" width=175>Lizard 1 (http://www.localriders.com/forums/member.php?u=4199)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_114591", true); </SCRIPT>
So, you ride dem cycles?

http://www.localriders.com/forums/customavatars/avatar4199_6.gif (http://www.localriders.com/forums/member.php?u=4199)

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,959


</TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_114591 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d1d1e1 1px solid"><!-- icon and title -->Re: Fasttrax Trackdays: Nelson, BeaveRun, Bluegrass
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Apollo http://www.localriders.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.localriders.com/forums/showthread.php?p=114572#post114572)
Regardless, why don't you come and join us on an open day of practice or a race? Remember, no member fees for open track time.
:thumbsup
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Uh, I am an STT instructor...
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
"I want it so badly it's unhealthy" -- Nicky Hayden
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Ok, look. You obviously are doing this to create an issue. Tom and I have had some classic battles and yet he has offered some great constructive criticism. You on the other hand have yet to offer anything at all.

Yes, I am a staff member. I am not paid. We volunteer 100%.

The comment about just going to the site. What about the guys asking for riders at Putnam? What about the guys who work at shops that sponsor a track and they promote the track and list costs and links? What about the guys who offer Craig's List and Ebay links? Can't we all figure out that we can all just go to the websites and find our own info?

What you miss here is that there are a lot of people that are into track days, into racing, MAY be interested in doing those things, as well. Thus, forums are a source of information to which a lot of people access to find out what is going on.

I admit that I could have done it better and I think the new thread shows a better way of doing it.

Get off the ban wagon of trying to create a stir. You're not looking too good in doing it...

[Lizard 1]

Oh, and Wozerd - check out the posts from HiFlyer and Dragon. Exact reasons why posts like I put up can be informative and positive...

http://www.localriders.com/forums/showthread.php?p=115264#post115264

[ped]

heres another point, not sure if it was made already but STT is the primary provider of trackdays at the new local track. so anytime a trackday there is mentioned it will be through STT besides the periodic fasttrax type deal.

[WOZERD]

Look. I have no problem with what you did.-- Honestly, I don't. It's a fine line. Like the A-Junkies. Were they posting the Cycle Options thing to make money? No. They wanted to get a group together that would be big enough to lower everyones cost. But, in an indirect way, they were doing it for money. The money they saved. Are you doing this for money? No, but-- in an indirect way you are. You say you're not employed. That's where I said--whoa! Til then, I was cool-- even though I knew it violated the rules. Your definition of "employed" was, lets just say, technically incorrect and, misleading. You ARE EMPLOYED! Your compensation is free track time-- at least. Monte is not running a not for profit organization.
Mark G. finds a guy he thinks is a good bike mechanic and makes the mistake of getting the guy to join LR and post info on his shop. Some people weren't happy with simply pointing out what was a sincere, honest mistake. Some folks felt it was such an outrage, they couldn't get over it. But, some also found it very helpful. That's why there are rules. Many people can use common sense. Some can't. To me, rules are for people with no common sense like wind chimes are for stupid people so they know when it's windy out. Without rules, about this, restrictive as they may seem, how long before this forum is over run with Iron Pony, Comp Acc and everyone else filling it with advertising?
I don't WANT to make this an issue. But, I'm not the one with three pages of posts complaining about why it shouldn't be an issue.
As far as me "not looking to good doing it", Dude-- I don't look good doing anything-- and I don't give a F---

All I'm saying is, don't think the people here are soooo stupid that you can deny any allegiance or, as the rules put it: "Vested interest" so blatantly. That's what cranks my clock. Post all you want about STT. If the Admins want to delete it, that's between you and them. But, if you want to criticize them, in front of us, at least, be honest. It took me all of 5 minutes to find and post your contradictory statements.
> I am not employed,
> Uh, I am an STT instructor...
I mean-- which is it?

And, why couldn't you attend a FASTRAX day-- if you weren't a STT Instructor? Or, for that matter, even if you are? Please explain? Is their some type of contractual agreement with STT??

[Lizard 1]

Look. I have no problem with what you did.-- Honestly, I don't. It's a fine line. Like the A-Junkies. Were they posting the Cycle Options thing to make money? No. They wanted to get a group together that would be big enough to lower everyones cost. But, in an indirect way, they were doing it for money. The money they saved. Are you doing this for money? No, but-- in an indirect way you are. You say you're not employed. That's where I said--whoa! Til then, I was cool-- even though I knew it violated the rules. Your definition of "employed" was, lets just say, technically incorrect and, misleading. You ARE EMPLOYED! Your compensation is free track time-- at least. Monte is not running a not for profit organization.
Mark G. finds a guy he thinks is a good bike mechanic and makes the mistake of getting the guy to join LR and post info on his shop. Some people weren't happy with simply pointing out what was a sincere, honest mistake. Some folks felt it was such an outrage, they couldn't get over it. But, some also found it very helpful. That's why there are rules. Many people can use common sense. Some can't. To me, rules are for people with no common sense like wind chimes are for stupid people so they know when it's windy out. Without rules, about this, restrictive as they may seem, how long before this forum is over run with Iron Pony, Comp Acc and everyone else filling it with advertising?
I don't WANT to make this an issue. But, I'm not the one with three pages of posts complaining about why it shouldn't be an issue.
As far as me "not looking to good doing it", Dude-- I don't look good doing anything-- and I don't give a F---

All I'm saying is, don't think the people here are soooo stupid that you can deny any allegiance or, as the rules put it: "Vested interest" so blatantly. That's what cranks my clock. Post all you want about STT. If the Admins want to delete it, that's between you and them. But, if you want to criticize them, in front of us, at least, be honest. It took me all of 5 minutes to find and post your contradictory statements.
> I am not employed,
> Uh, I am an STT instructor...
I mean-- which is it?

And, why couldn't you attend a FASTRAX day-- if you weren't a STT Instructor? Or, for that matter, even if you are? Please explain? Is their some type of contractual agreement with STT??

Actually, I don't receive any amounts of money whatsoever from STT. Getting guys to come to a track day is a cash related endevour. STT for me isn't. I spend money, but never save any nor do I get any.

The result of STT for me is helping others enjoy the sport. Teaching and helping. That's it.

FT is the main issue here. Plain and simple. I understand that now and therefore the reason I adjusted my post and created the new thread.

I do not have ANY signed contract with STT other than the release I sign like every other track day rider who pays to be there. Quality track time isn't something I get as if I was getting a track day for free. We have to ride around slower than we normally would go to help people and spot issues.

Now, I do get some free time once in a while to play as it were, but it isn't like we get free track time like winning a day at the track like some customers can win... We work.

I need to rethink the payment thing. We do get a free lunch... :thumbsup



The posting about the Admins on here is simple. They called me out and gave no explanation. That's not fair. I haven't been political nor negative towards them other than wondering why it was pulled.

I take three pages because it seems to take that amount to get the point across. People post their ideas and feelings and sometimes, things get accomplished. How's it any different than any other thread on here? Why is it that it takes a turn in almost every thread and a topic goes from one idea to another? That's right - different people have different thoughts and things grow...

Also realize that even in this thread, there are those people out there wondering why things go the way they go on here. Why is that wrong or why is that something not allowed? If you don't dig it, the old saying "Don't read it" applies. I think I deserve to know why, but at this point, it has turned into a debate and I am really over it. You went a little personal and I am defending your posts trying to be a smart ass...

Be constructive. Be helpful. Of all the people, Tom has been pretty cool in this. You on the other hand are poking and poking and can't seem to let it go.

[WOZERD]

So, you are not a staff member then? And, are you saying you pay money to attend STT? Are you saying that you pay $200.00 and up to ride STT events just so you can help others?
Then, I applaud you!
I thought I was being constructive and helpful by pointing out the area of the rules that were being violated.

[witttom]

Be constructive. Be helpful. Of all the people, Tom has been pretty cool in this. You on the other hand are poking and poking and can't seem to let it go.

For the record, I really wish you'd quit bringing me into this and using me as an example.


I'm not in the Lizard camp, nor will I ever be. My statements were not supporting you.
I believe that your original WOW post was clearly in violation of LR self-promotion rules.
I believe that your original post was nothing like past Assfault Junkie track day posts.
I believe that you work for STT, regardless if you get paid or not, and have a vested interest in STT.
I believe that your updated Bluegrass trackday post is within the posting rules, but just barely.
My statements were made because I could see the difference, and thought perhaps I could potentially (maybe) explain them.
I completely expected to get flamed for poking my nose in this thread/topic. I appreciate the fact that I didn't.
There are better ways to convey Bluegrass track day information, without posting in a fashion that violates the rules.
I believe that many of your posts, including the recent Bluegrass info, are laced with read-between-the-lines insults directed at LR admins, Fasttrax, or others. If not intentionally, then perhaps Freudian. I believe that the admins can see this as well.
Others have been subjected to these rules as well. You're not the only one.
You past confrontational stance with Fasttrax has probably not helped you squeak by, nor do I think you should expect the LR staff to allow you to bend the rules.
LocalRiders is not a free country. It's an online forum operated by private individuals and funding. You have no "Rights" here, nor does anyone else.
Referencing my name in your explanations or other statements trying to justify your actions is certainly not going to help your cause.
Whatever my opinions are or what I "believe" doesn't really matter, because I'm not an admin.


This is not a personal attack directed at you. I'm not looking for a confrontation, nor am I wanting to debate the topic. I am not trying to sneak in any jabs or insults. I not trying to build any bridges with you, nor with the LR Good'Ol Boys. I'm simply stating my stance on the subject, because every time I see you type my name, my eyeballs burn and suspect that I'm developing a Healea tumor at the base of my skull. Please leave me out of it and flame Bob instead. He's an old fart and the excitement is good exercise for his heart. He also needs the entertainment. It keeps him busy so we don't have to listen to his political ramblings. Thanks for doing us all this noble service.

[WOZERD]

I resemble that remark!!

[witttom]

I resemble that remark!!Which one? The one about being an old fart, or the one about being delusional and senile? :uhh: Oh wait, nevermind.... I omitted those last remarks. ;)

[Lizard 1]

For the record, I really wish you'd quit bringing me into this and using me as an example.


I'm not in the Lizard camp, nor will I ever be. My statements were not supporting you.
I believe that your original WOW post was clearly in violation of LR self-promotion rules.
I believe that your original post was nothing like past Assfault Junkie track day posts.
I believe that you work for STT, regardless if you get paid or not, and have a vested interest in STT.
I believe that your updated Bluegrass trackday post is within the posting rules, but just barely.
My statements were made because I could see the difference, and thought perhaps I could potentially (maybe) explain them.
I completely expected to get flamed for poking my nose in this thread/topic. I appreciate the fact that I didn't.
There are better ways to convey Bluegrass track day information, without posting in a fashion that violates the rules.
I believe that many of your posts, including the recent Bluegrass info, are laced with read-between-the-lines insults directed at LR admins, Fasttrax, or others. If not intentionally, then perhaps Freudian. I believe that the admins can see this as well.
Others have been subjected to these rules as well. You're not the only one.
You past confrontational stance with Fasttrax has probably not helped you squeak by, nor do I think you should expect the LR staff to allow you to bend the rules.
LocalRiders is not a free country. It's an online forum operated by private individuals and funding. You have no "Rights" here, nor does anyone else.
Referencing my name in your explanations or other statements trying to justify your actions is certainly not going to help your cause.
Whatever my opinions are or what I "believe" doesn't really matter, because I'm not an admin.


This is not a personal attack directed at you. I'm not looking for a confrontation, nor am I wanting to debate the topic. I am not trying to sneak in any jabs or insults. I not trying to build any bridges with you, nor with the LR Good'Ol Boys. I'm simply stating my stance on the subject, because every time I see you type my name, my eyeballs burn and suspect that I'm developing a Healea tumor at the base of my skull. Please leave me out of it and flame Bob instead. He's an old fart and the excitement is good exercise for his heart. He also needs the entertainment. It keeps him busy so we don't have to listen to his political ramblings. Thanks for doing us all this noble service.

Alrighty then... Guess I was being hopeful you have changed a bit. Guess not. Laced is a cool word - especially how you seem to be asking a lot of questions that are easily answered over in the FT thread about BG. Are you really interested in track days or are you just doing it to provoke something or as a "on the slide bash" of my threads???

Hmmmm...

One thing I will say is that I have given FT ample chances. I tried and even thought ToddK's deal with FT was noble and after talking to him, I actually was considering giving them another chance at me racing with them. Trying to now use that against me is ridiculous as Todd and I have talked and it went rather well. I even went ahead and posted some things I think would benefit FT and many agreed...

But, since it seems to be a deal where people feel I am bashing FT. I am not. I do know that a hand was extended and an idea was given out and they went ahead and pretty much took the idea and did it on their own. They upset Monte at STT and have decided what was a deal between the Stanleys and Monte now doesn't exist anymore and they are looking past that. More importantly, I was contacting Todd myself and feel betrayed and cannot even get a call back. I am saddened and confused where it went south, but I guess it stands that I will never know. They are looking at this year being a year of "must do" in order to keep running. I think they have a chance and hope them the best.

Great for them. However, with the track day deal they are pursuing in greater strength, it is a conflict with who I help with. No different than NESBA or Pro Motion, etc.

Just trying to give out info and apparently, it isn't welcome on this site. That's sad because a LOT of riders on here are wanting to know info as it comes. Not everyone can drive 3 plus hours to Nelson for a race or a track day. BG holds one FT track day and what happens in 2010 is something we'll have to wait and see. All I know is that they have one date and STT has several.

Call it what you want, but in the end, it is info. No different than any other site I attend that promotes track days. WERA allows track day info to be posted, Ohio Riders does as well. This is a site for motorcycle enthusiasts and they are mostly a group that appreciates info. Not everyone and certainly not yourself apparently and I apologize for that.


I am not name dropping you and apparently I mis-read what you were really saying. Don't worry Tom Witt, I won't use it anymore. Sorry I thought you might have a bright spot. You have lived up to the standard by which a lot of people on here think of you... I try at times to get passed it, but you succeed in squashing that as soon as you can...

[witttom]

Laced is a cool word - especially how you seem to be asking a lot of questions that are easily answered over in the FT thread about BG. Are you really interested in track days or are you just doing it to provoke something or as a "on the slide bash" of my threads???

I already told you that I'm not looking for confrontation and I'm not bashing you. It is obvious that you thrive on such drama and go looking for it. I'm simply stating facts, clarifying my views on the matter since they are commonly twisted, and tossing in a little bit of my apparent odd sense humor to lighten the atmosphere. If you have issues with me asking questions in a LocalRiders-based Fasttrax Trackday discussion, I'd suggest consulting with the LR admin staff and filing your complaint. I'm sure they will be sympathetic of your cause.

My FT track day inquiry is sincere, not that it concerns you. It was my original intent when acquiring my Speed Four, to get it on the track occasionally. I've yet to do that. I attended a FT class back in 2005 and really enjoyed it. I would like the opportunity to get some open session track time. With BG being closer to home, the FT track day looks like a good option for me if my finances can bare it. I considered STT at one time, but no longer. If you'll recall, you made a threat to me last year in a public forum, were you stated that you would "Boot" me from the track if you ever had the opportunity. Fact. I'm a father of three and I'd like to be around for them. A serious injury or death to me would be detrimental to my family. Track time is dangerous enough without someone making threats to do me harm. A threat to me under those circumstances is something that I take seriously. A threat like that from an STT instructor, regardless if it was sincere, is enough to keep me away from those track days.

A good friend strongly encouraged me not to allow myself to get pulled into this any further, by offering up any additional responses. I apologize to him for not taking his advice, and everyone else for the senseless bantering. I am however finished from this point forward will not be responding to your comments on this topic any further, regardless of how much you flame me or attempt to provoke me into it. This is the best way for me to prevent inflammation of my Healea tumors. Doctors orders. Sorry.

[Lizard 1]

I already told you that I'm not looking for confrontation and I'm not bashing you. It is obvious that you thrive on such drama and go looking for it. I'm simply stating facts, clarifying my views on the matter since they are commonly twisted, and tossing in a little bit of my apparent odd sense humor to lighten the atmosphere. If you have issues with me asking questions in a LocalRiders-based Fasttrax Trackday discussion, I'd suggest consulting with the LR admin staff and filing your complaint. I'm sure they will be sympathetic of your cause.

My FT track day inquiry is sincere, not that it concerns you. It was my original intent when acquiring my Speed Four, to get it on the track occasionally. I've yet to do that. I attended a FT class back in 2005 and really enjoyed it. I would like the opportunity to get some open session track time. With BG being closer to home, the FT track day looks like a good option for me if my finances can bare it. I considered STT at one time, but no longer. If you'll recall, you made a threat to me last year in a public forum, were you stated that you would "Boot" me from the track if you ever had the opportunity. Fact. I'm a father of three and I'd like to be around for them. A serious injury or death to me would be detrimental to my family. Track time is dangerous enough without someone making threats to do me harm. A threat to me under those circumstances is something that I take seriously. A threat like that from an STT instructor, regardless if it was sincere, is enough to keep me away from those track days.

A good friend strongly encouraged me not to allow myself to get pulled into this any further, by offering up any additional responses. I apologize to him for not taking his advice, and everyone else for the senseless bantering. I am however finished from this point forward will not be responding to your comments on this topic any further, regardless of how much you flame me or attempt to provoke me into it. This is the best way for me to prevent inflammation of my Healea tumors. Doctors orders. Sorry.

Seriously... The time I stated I would "boot" you was in reference to you acting strangely towards my family and looking up info and posting it on the net for everyone to see. You actually were told by the Admins to knock it off... Well, that's what they told me they told you...

I welcome anyone to the track and am willing to help anyone. But, if you wish to go to a FT event at BG, cool. At least you're getting to the track, I guess. If you ever think I would personally attack anyone, you obviously don't know who I am. I don't thrive on confrontation, but I surely will not tolerate ill information nor people stating things that are not true.

I appreciate you attempt in making STT and myself look bad. It's in traditional taste for you, I think. However, using it in the light by which you are here is really bad and I think the Admins ought to remove the comment as it isn't being referred in the correct manner by which I stated it. Afterall, what you were doing to provoke that comment is something you seem inclined to not list here...

DO NOT attempt to bad mouth me as an instructor or STT as a track day provider as it is slanderous and in poor taste. Bad judgement - even for you Thomas.

[serpentracer]

wittTom is one of the People I was referring to. life way up on that pedestal must be lonely.

it's not like lizard is some new member posting spam. christ why is this board so full of up tight butt hurt Bitches? by the way bitch is not a cuss word.
I was allowed to say it in jr.high.
if it's too much of a word for you, maybe you should seek an altenative to the internet. like the front row of your local church.

this forum would be a lot cooler/much better of a place about motorcycles if the people in charge of it would loosen up the butt hole they all seem to share

mark my word, my post will be edited....it's typical.

[Lizard 1]

wittTom is one of the People I was referring to. life way up on that pedestal must be lonely.

it's not like lizard is some new member posting spam. christ why is this board so full of up tight butt hurt Bitches? by the way bitch is not a cuss word.
I was allowed to say it in jr.high.
if it's too much of a word for you, maybe you should seek an altenative to the internet. like the front row of your local church.

this forum would be a lot cooler/much better of a place about motorcycles if the people in charge of it would loosen up the butt hole they all seem to share

mark my word, my post will be edited....it's typical.

Thanks Serpent.

[Kanatuna]

This is way too much drama from both sides. Damn.... FT is a sponser on here so LR is going to be sensitive to that. Otherwise, I feel that posting information regarding any track day is a good thing. If it gets people motivated to get on the track where they can become a better rider, then bring on the posts! Maybe we should leave out the organization until the end of the post.... Just so that there is a contact. Just an idea.

Brian

[A4est]

This is way too much drama from both sides. Damn.... FT is a sponser on here so LR is going to be sensitive to that. Otherwise, I feel that posting information regarding any track day is a good thing. If it gets people motivated to get on the track where they can become a better rider, then bring on the posts! Maybe we should leave out the organization until the end of the post.... Just so that there is a contact. Just an idea.

Brian

I agree with Tuna!...... But don't tell anyone.

[kyzrex]

it's been a loooong winter and everyone has PMS (parked motorcycle syndrom for those that don't know), so why doesn't everyone just lighten up and move along....nothing new to see here :cheers:

patrick

[dark6]

I love lizard and I will be at the stt track days







stt
stt
stt
:what: :what:






Damn cry babys!

[Kanatuna]

Way to announce your love for lizard.... Does he know yet Erich? lmao:no:

[vera]

I will be at the stt track days


Me, too.
I already printed out the entire schedule for 2009 and plan on doing 2 trackdays with them. 1 at Mid Ohio and 1 in KY.
Now all I have to do is decide when and send it my registrations. :multijump

[Lizard 1]

The great part is that I don't know a single one of you folks!! :)

But, it is great to see the fact that there are a group of members that are wanting to do track days - no matter who you choose. I think the information is important and it shows.

[vera]

But, it is great to see the fact that there are a group of members that are wanting to do track days - no matter who you choose. I think the information is important and it shows.

I am glad you posted about STT.
So far I haven't considered doing a trackday with them. But after checking out their website, STT suits me much better than Fasttrax.
The STT schedules are much better for us who work full time and can't take off during the week.
And the Mid Ohio and Bluegrass are much closer to home.

I am very much looking forward to my first STT trackday this spring/summer.

[WOZERD]

Against my better judgment.
(like that's never happened before)
Before I too bow out and swear (again) never to engage in this fruitless goose chase where facts seem to be ignored.
I seem to remember a thread started by Mark G concerning a guy he found that had his own shop. The owner posted the info and someone pointed out that that was a violation of the rules. Admin so noted. Mark G apologized. Quite a few people posted their appreciation of this information. Some were adamantly apposed to this rule violation and posted repeatedly their feelings. My only grievance was the intensity of those that condemned Mark's thread violation. The same few it seems, that defend Lizard1's thread. The posts were cleaned up and there it sits.
Clean cup, move down.
I believe there was no malice or ill intent on Mark G's part nor on the (I forgot his name-- Chris?) part of the shop owner. Once it was noted about the violation, those two stopped. I think the total thread was 2 pages, maybe three. The bulk of which was made up of rants (including mine) arguing (initially) the violation then, detiorating to the severity of the outrage.
Now comes Lizard1. He starts a thread. He promotes STT. Like the Mark G thread, I thought it was great to get that info. Just like when Chris posts WSBK and MOTOGP info. But, it violates the rules because, regardless of what the definition of IS is, Lizard1 is employed by STT and therefore has a vested interest in promoting it. That's a shame because, it's convenient for me to find that info here even though I could find that simply enough using any search tool.
If you disagree with the rule, I can understand. But if you have ever wittnessed a forum get completely destroyed by spam/advertising, you would appreciate the need for it even though you still did not like it.
An example that comes to my mind would be in an auto service shop. The mechanic needs to change his oil. The owner/manager let's him use the shop facilities to do it at no charge. The next tech/mechanic asks if he can and gets the same privilige. This goes on and everything is just fine. Then, one day, one tech brings in his mom's car and changes the oil. The owner thinks, well-- OK, it's his mom. But then it escalates. The guy brings in his girlfriends car, then his buddies car, then he starts using the shops oil, then he's doing brake jobs on the side. it's human nature. Some people appreciate the benefit, some abuse it. So, the owner makes blanket rule and no one can work on any car without paying for the work. All the ones that appreciated the benefit and didn't abuse it lose that privilage over one persons abuse.
THAT'S WHY THERE ARE RULES. BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ABUSE A PRIVILAGE.
I will give Lizard1 the benefit of the doubt on his intention to simply provide information. But to deny that he is emplyed by STT is-- well, there is no other way to put it-- it's a lie. Not just a lie-- a blatant lie that was so easily refuted as to be a joke. Not being paid cash does not mean he is not employed. As a matter of fact, checking with the IRS, legally, Lizard1 should claim it on his income tax. It could be construed very easily as a taxable benefit. Take for example one of the cheapest 2 day fees; Grattan. $265.00 for two days. That breaks down to $132.50 per day. Lizard1's expenses easily outweigh the benefit value so no tax would be owed. But, following the letter of the law, it should be claimed as income. Lizard1 complains that it's work (but denies working for them). Who amongst us doesn't envy him?
Yet, as of this moment, he denies he is employed. He denies he even has a "vested interest". To me, that is an insult to everyones intelligence.
Some of you have taken sides.
If you go back a few years you will find similar threads involving Lizard1 and other members (including me) in opposition. With each one, the alienation has grown. I will not blame one person because I feel if I had just shut up, maybe it would have just died down. Different viewpoints are what make life iteresting and, as some have said, keep my heart in good shape. This thread has been the worst as far as splitting this community. And for what? So someone can post info that they clearly have a vested interest in? Do those of you that agree with Lizard1 want to allow spam/advertising for the sake of information? Where then, do you draw the line. Can I start promoting my buddies online motorcycle business by posting everyday, every hour on all threads? Hey, it's info! You get a great deal and-- hey, I get a kick back but still, it's info! If you think that's a ridiculous example, I swear to you, it's not. It is exactly what happened to a forum I joined back in the mid 90's. Once the spammers hit, the place was in ruins within 72 hours.
Bottom line.
> I would never have said a word if Lizard1 hadn't denied affliation with STT.
> I would never have said a word if Lizard1 had simply said-- oops! My bad!
sorry (like others have done).
> I would never have said a word if Lizard1 hadn't ranted on and on about being ignored by the admins. I assume they have jobs, families and other responsibilities (plus conferring on the legality of the thread)that might cause them to not get back to him for 4 days.
And, finally-- finally--finally.
I've been told that, when you meet Brian in person, he is a nice guy. I hope that's true. I must ask, why is he so devisive online then?
And, I am pretty sure I'm here at the whim of the admins-- as is everybody else. In other words, we are given the privilage of saying pretty much what we want by people that spend their free time making sure we can continue enjoying that privilage. There is no law that says I or any of us can't be booted. Right? There is no law, also, that says that one day the admins will just look at each other and decide it isn't worth the BS to keep this forum going. The fact that I and a few others haven't been booted speaks volumes for their sense of fairness and tolerance. I think I know who two of them are. Honestly, I wouldn't bet $2.00 that I'm right.

If Lizard1 had spent half the effort and time he spent here trying to convince Monty to become a LR advertiser, we wouldn't be having this "discussion". I'm betting Monty would do it and-- I'm sure he could afford it.

Lizard1, I give you the last word. I want someone to smack me upside the head if I ever-- ever, get involved with Lizard1 again. It's a wild goose chase. In the past, I have tried to "make nice" after disagreeing with Lizard1. But, it seems to be a fruitless effort.
Stick a fork in me!