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Old 02-14-2009   #46
witttom
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

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Originally Posted by WOZERD View Post
I resemble that remark!!
Which one? The one about being an old fart, or the one about being delusional and senile? Oh wait, nevermind.... I omitted those last remarks.
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Old 02-14-2009   #47
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

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For the record, I really wish you'd quit bringing me into this and using me as an example.
  • I'm not in the Lizard camp, nor will I ever be. My statements were not supporting you.
  • I believe that your original WOW post was clearly in violation of LR self-promotion rules.
  • I believe that your original post was nothing like past Assfault Junkie track day posts.
  • I believe that you work for STT, regardless if you get paid or not, and have a vested interest in STT.
  • I believe that your updated Bluegrass trackday post is within the posting rules, but just barely.
  • My statements were made because I could see the difference, and thought perhaps I could potentially (maybe) explain them.
  • I completely expected to get flamed for poking my nose in this thread/topic. I appreciate the fact that I didn't.
  • There are better ways to convey Bluegrass track day information, without posting in a fashion that violates the rules.
  • I believe that many of your posts, including the recent Bluegrass info, are laced with read-between-the-lines insults directed at LR admins, Fasttrax, or others. If not intentionally, then perhaps Freudian. I believe that the admins can see this as well.
  • Others have been subjected to these rules as well. You're not the only one.
  • You past confrontational stance with Fasttrax has probably not helped you squeak by, nor do I think you should expect the LR staff to allow you to bend the rules.
  • LocalRiders is not a free country. It's an online forum operated by private individuals and funding. You have no "Rights" here, nor does anyone else.
  • Referencing my name in your explanations or other statements trying to justify your actions is certainly not going to help your cause.
  • Whatever my opinions are or what I "believe" doesn't really matter, because I'm not an admin.

This is not a personal attack directed at you. I'm not looking for a confrontation, nor am I wanting to debate the topic. I am not trying to sneak in any jabs or insults. I not trying to build any bridges with you, nor with the LR Good'Ol Boys. I'm simply stating my stance on the subject, because every time I see you type my name, my eyeballs burn and suspect that I'm developing a Healea tumor at the base of my skull. Please leave me out of it and flame Bob instead. He's an old fart and the excitement is good exercise for his heart. He also needs the entertainment. It keeps him busy so we don't have to listen to his political ramblings. Thanks for doing us all this noble service.
Alrighty then... Guess I was being hopeful you have changed a bit. Guess not. Laced is a cool word - especially how you seem to be asking a lot of questions that are easily answered over in the FT thread about BG. Are you really interested in track days or are you just doing it to provoke something or as a "on the slide bash" of my threads???

Hmmmm...

One thing I will say is that I have given FT ample chances. I tried and even thought ToddK's deal with FT was noble and after talking to him, I actually was considering giving them another chance at me racing with them. Trying to now use that against me is ridiculous as Todd and I have talked and it went rather well. I even went ahead and posted some things I think would benefit FT and many agreed...

But, since it seems to be a deal where people feel I am bashing FT. I am not. I do know that a hand was extended and an idea was given out and they went ahead and pretty much took the idea and did it on their own. They upset Monte at STT and have decided what was a deal between the Stanleys and Monte now doesn't exist anymore and they are looking past that. More importantly, I was contacting Todd myself and feel betrayed and cannot even get a call back. I am saddened and confused where it went south, but I guess it stands that I will never know. They are looking at this year being a year of "must do" in order to keep running. I think they have a chance and hope them the best.

Great for them. However, with the track day deal they are pursuing in greater strength, it is a conflict with who I help with. No different than NESBA or Pro Motion, etc.

Just trying to give out info and apparently, it isn't welcome on this site. That's sad because a LOT of riders on here are wanting to know info as it comes. Not everyone can drive 3 plus hours to Nelson for a race or a track day. BG holds one FT track day and what happens in 2010 is something we'll have to wait and see. All I know is that they have one date and STT has several.

Call it what you want, but in the end, it is info. No different than any other site I attend that promotes track days. WERA allows track day info to be posted, Ohio Riders does as well. This is a site for motorcycle enthusiasts and they are mostly a group that appreciates info. Not everyone and certainly not yourself apparently and I apologize for that.


I am not name dropping you and apparently I mis-read what you were really saying. Don't worry Tom Witt, I won't use it anymore. Sorry I thought you might have a bright spot. You have lived up to the standard by which a lot of people on here think of you... I try at times to get passed it, but you succeed in squashing that as soon as you can...
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Old 02-14-2009   #48
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

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Originally Posted by Lizard 1 View Post
Laced is a cool word - especially how you seem to be asking a lot of questions that are easily answered over in the FT thread about BG. Are you really interested in track days or are you just doing it to provoke something or as a "on the slide bash" of my threads???
I already told you that I'm not looking for confrontation and I'm not bashing you. It is obvious that you thrive on such drama and go looking for it. I'm simply stating facts, clarifying my views on the matter since they are commonly twisted, and tossing in a little bit of my apparent odd sense humor to lighten the atmosphere. If you have issues with me asking questions in a LocalRiders-based Fasttrax Trackday discussion, I'd suggest consulting with the LR admin staff and filing your complaint. I'm sure they will be sympathetic of your cause.

My FT track day inquiry is sincere, not that it concerns you. It was my original intent when acquiring my Speed Four, to get it on the track occasionally. I've yet to do that. I attended a FT class back in 2005 and really enjoyed it. I would like the opportunity to get some open session track time. With BG being closer to home, the FT track day looks like a good option for me if my finances can bare it. I considered STT at one time, but no longer. If you'll recall, you made a threat to me last year in a public forum, were you stated that you would "Boot" me from the track if you ever had the opportunity. Fact. I'm a father of three and I'd like to be around for them. A serious injury or death to me would be detrimental to my family. Track time is dangerous enough without someone making threats to do me harm. A threat to me under those circumstances is something that I take seriously. A threat like that from an STT instructor, regardless if it was sincere, is enough to keep me away from those track days.

A good friend strongly encouraged me not to allow myself to get pulled into this any further, by offering up any additional responses. I apologize to him for not taking his advice, and everyone else for the senseless bantering. I am however finished from this point forward will not be responding to your comments on this topic any further, regardless of how much you flame me or attempt to provoke me into it. This is the best way for me to prevent inflammation of my Healea tumors. Doctors orders. Sorry.
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Old 02-14-2009   #49
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

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Originally Posted by witttom View Post
I already told you that I'm not looking for confrontation and I'm not bashing you. It is obvious that you thrive on such drama and go looking for it. I'm simply stating facts, clarifying my views on the matter since they are commonly twisted, and tossing in a little bit of my apparent odd sense humor to lighten the atmosphere. If you have issues with me asking questions in a LocalRiders-based Fasttrax Trackday discussion, I'd suggest consulting with the LR admin staff and filing your complaint. I'm sure they will be sympathetic of your cause.

My FT track day inquiry is sincere, not that it concerns you. It was my original intent when acquiring my Speed Four, to get it on the track occasionally. I've yet to do that. I attended a FT class back in 2005 and really enjoyed it. I would like the opportunity to get some open session track time. With BG being closer to home, the FT track day looks like a good option for me if my finances can bare it. I considered STT at one time, but no longer. If you'll recall, you made a threat to me last year in a public forum, were you stated that you would "Boot" me from the track if you ever had the opportunity. Fact. I'm a father of three and I'd like to be around for them. A serious injury or death to me would be detrimental to my family. Track time is dangerous enough without someone making threats to do me harm. A threat to me under those circumstances is something that I take seriously. A threat like that from an STT instructor, regardless if it was sincere, is enough to keep me away from those track days.

A good friend strongly encouraged me not to allow myself to get pulled into this any further, by offering up any additional responses. I apologize to him for not taking his advice, and everyone else for the senseless bantering. I am however finished from this point forward will not be responding to your comments on this topic any further, regardless of how much you flame me or attempt to provoke me into it. This is the best way for me to prevent inflammation of my Healea tumors. Doctors orders. Sorry.
Seriously... The time I stated I would "boot" you was in reference to you acting strangely towards my family and looking up info and posting it on the net for everyone to see. You actually were told by the Admins to knock it off... Well, that's what they told me they told you...

I welcome anyone to the track and am willing to help anyone. But, if you wish to go to a FT event at BG, cool. At least you're getting to the track, I guess. If you ever think I would personally attack anyone, you obviously don't know who I am. I don't thrive on confrontation, but I surely will not tolerate ill information nor people stating things that are not true.

I appreciate you attempt in making STT and myself look bad. It's in traditional taste for you, I think. However, using it in the light by which you are here is really bad and I think the Admins ought to remove the comment as it isn't being referred in the correct manner by which I stated it. Afterall, what you were doing to provoke that comment is something you seem inclined to not list here...

DO NOT attempt to bad mouth me as an instructor or STT as a track day provider as it is slanderous and in poor taste. Bad judgement - even for you Thomas.
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Old 02-14-2009   #50
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

wittTom is one of the People I was referring to. life way up on that pedestal must be lonely.

it's not like lizard is some new member posting spam. christ why is this board so full of up tight butt hurt Bitches? by the way bitch is not a cuss word.
I was allowed to say it in jr.high.
if it's too much of a word for you, maybe you should seek an altenative to the internet. like the front row of your local church.

this forum would be a lot cooler/much better of a place about motorcycles if the people in charge of it would loosen up the butt hole they all seem to share

mark my word, my post will be edited....it's typical.

Last edited by serpentracer; 02-14-2009 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 02-14-2009   #51
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

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Originally Posted by serpentracer View Post
wittTom is one of the People I was referring to. life way up on that pedestal must be lonely.

it's not like lizard is some new member posting spam. christ why is this board so full of up tight butt hurt Bitches? by the way bitch is not a cuss word.
I was allowed to say it in jr.high.
if it's too much of a word for you, maybe you should seek an altenative to the internet. like the front row of your local church.

this forum would be a lot cooler/much better of a place about motorcycles if the people in charge of it would loosen up the butt hole they all seem to share

mark my word, my post will be edited....it's typical.
Thanks Serpent.
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Old 02-14-2009   #52
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

This is way too much drama from both sides. Damn.... FT is a sponser on here so LR is going to be sensitive to that. Otherwise, I feel that posting information regarding any track day is a good thing. If it gets people motivated to get on the track where they can become a better rider, then bring on the posts! Maybe we should leave out the organization until the end of the post.... Just so that there is a contact. Just an idea.

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Old 02-15-2009   #53
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

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Originally Posted by Kanatuna View Post
This is way too much drama from both sides. Damn.... FT is a sponser on here so LR is going to be sensitive to that. Otherwise, I feel that posting information regarding any track day is a good thing. If it gets people motivated to get on the track where they can become a better rider, then bring on the posts! Maybe we should leave out the organization until the end of the post.... Just so that there is a contact. Just an idea.

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Old 02-15-2009   #54
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

it's been a loooong winter and everyone has PMS (parked motorcycle syndrom for those that don't know), so why doesn't everyone just lighten up and move along....nothing new to see here

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Old 02-15-2009   #55
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

I love lizard and I will be at the stt track days







stt
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Old 02-15-2009   #56
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

Way to announce your love for lizard.... Does he know yet Erich? lmao
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Old 02-15-2009   #57
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

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I will be at the stt track days
Me, too.
I already printed out the entire schedule for 2009 and plan on doing 2 trackdays with them. 1 at Mid Ohio and 1 in KY.
Now all I have to do is decide when and send it my registrations.
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Old 02-15-2009   #58
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

The great part is that I don't know a single one of you folks!!

But, it is great to see the fact that there are a group of members that are wanting to do track days - no matter who you choose. I think the information is important and it shows.
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Old 02-16-2009   #59
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

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But, it is great to see the fact that there are a group of members that are wanting to do track days - no matter who you choose. I think the information is important and it shows.
I am glad you posted about STT.
So far I haven't considered doing a trackday with them. But after checking out their website, STT suits me much better than Fasttrax.
The STT schedules are much better for us who work full time and can't take off during the week.
And the Mid Ohio and Bluegrass are much closer to home.

I am very much looking forward to my first STT trackday this spring/summer.
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Old 02-16-2009   #60
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Re: What is needed to post info on track days???

Against my better judgment.
(like that's never happened before)
Before I too bow out and swear (again) never to engage in this fruitless goose chase where facts seem to be ignored.
I seem to remember a thread started by Mark G concerning a guy he found that had his own shop. The owner posted the info and someone pointed out that that was a violation of the rules. Admin so noted. Mark G apologized. Quite a few people posted their appreciation of this information. Some were adamantly apposed to this rule violation and posted repeatedly their feelings. My only grievance was the intensity of those that condemned Mark's thread violation. The same few it seems, that defend Lizard1's thread. The posts were cleaned up and there it sits.
Clean cup, move down.
I believe there was no malice or ill intent on Mark G's part nor on the (I forgot his name-- Chris?) part of the shop owner. Once it was noted about the violation, those two stopped. I think the total thread was 2 pages, maybe three. The bulk of which was made up of rants (including mine) arguing (initially) the violation then, detiorating to the severity of the outrage.
Now comes Lizard1. He starts a thread. He promotes STT. Like the Mark G thread, I thought it was great to get that info. Just like when Chris posts WSBK and MOTOGP info. But, it violates the rules because, regardless of what the definition of IS is, Lizard1 is employed by STT and therefore has a vested interest in promoting it. That's a shame because, it's convenient for me to find that info here even though I could find that simply enough using any search tool.
If you disagree with the rule, I can understand. But if you have ever wittnessed a forum get completely destroyed by spam/advertising, you would appreciate the need for it even though you still did not like it.
An example that comes to my mind would be in an auto service shop. The mechanic needs to change his oil. The owner/manager let's him use the shop facilities to do it at no charge. The next tech/mechanic asks if he can and gets the same privilige. This goes on and everything is just fine. Then, one day, one tech brings in his mom's car and changes the oil. The owner thinks, well-- OK, it's his mom. But then it escalates. The guy brings in his girlfriends car, then his buddies car, then he starts using the shops oil, then he's doing brake jobs on the side. it's human nature. Some people appreciate the benefit, some abuse it. So, the owner makes blanket rule and no one can work on any car without paying for the work. All the ones that appreciated the benefit and didn't abuse it lose that privilage over one persons abuse.
THAT'S WHY THERE ARE RULES. BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ABUSE A PRIVILAGE.
I will give Lizard1 the benefit of the doubt on his intention to simply provide information. But to deny that he is emplyed by STT is-- well, there is no other way to put it-- it's a lie. Not just a lie-- a blatant lie that was so easily refuted as to be a joke. Not being paid cash does not mean he is not employed. As a matter of fact, checking with the IRS, legally, Lizard1 should claim it on his income tax. It could be construed very easily as a taxable benefit. Take for example one of the cheapest 2 day fees; Grattan. $265.00 for two days. That breaks down to $132.50 per day. Lizard1's expenses easily outweigh the benefit value so no tax would be owed. But, following the letter of the law, it should be claimed as income. Lizard1 complains that it's work (but denies working for them). Who amongst us doesn't envy him?
Yet, as of this moment, he denies he is employed. He denies he even has a "vested interest". To me, that is an insult to everyones intelligence.
Some of you have taken sides.
If you go back a few years you will find similar threads involving Lizard1 and other members (including me) in opposition. With each one, the alienation has grown. I will not blame one person because I feel if I had just shut up, maybe it would have just died down. Different viewpoints are what make life iteresting and, as some have said, keep my heart in good shape. This thread has been the worst as far as splitting this community. And for what? So someone can post info that they clearly have a vested interest in? Do those of you that agree with Lizard1 want to allow spam/advertising for the sake of information? Where then, do you draw the line. Can I start promoting my buddies online motorcycle business by posting everyday, every hour on all threads? Hey, it's info! You get a great deal and-- hey, I get a kick back but still, it's info! If you think that's a ridiculous example, I swear to you, it's not. It is exactly what happened to a forum I joined back in the mid 90's. Once the spammers hit, the place was in ruins within 72 hours.
Bottom line.
> I would never have said a word if Lizard1 hadn't denied affliation with STT.
> I would never have said a word if Lizard1 had simply said-- oops! My bad!
sorry (like others have done).
> I would never have said a word if Lizard1 hadn't ranted on and on about being ignored by the admins. I assume they have jobs, families and other responsibilities (plus conferring on the legality of the thread)that might cause them to not get back to him for 4 days.
And, finally-- finally--finally.
I've been told that, when you meet Brian in person, he is a nice guy. I hope that's true. I must ask, why is he so devisive online then?
And, I am pretty sure I'm here at the whim of the admins-- as is everybody else. In other words, we are given the privilage of saying pretty much what we want by people that spend their free time making sure we can continue enjoying that privilage. There is no law that says I or any of us can't be booted. Right? There is no law, also, that says that one day the admins will just look at each other and decide it isn't worth the BS to keep this forum going. The fact that I and a few others haven't been booted speaks volumes for their sense of fairness and tolerance. I think I know who two of them are. Honestly, I wouldn't bet $2.00 that I'm right.

If Lizard1 had spent half the effort and time he spent here trying to convince Monty to become a LR advertiser, we wouldn't be having this "discussion". I'm betting Monty would do it and-- I'm sure he could afford it.

Lizard1, I give you the last word. I want someone to smack me upside the head if I ever-- ever, get involved with Lizard1 again. It's a wild goose chase. In the past, I have tried to "make nice" after disagreeing with Lizard1. But, it seems to be a fruitless effort.
Stick a fork in me!
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