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Old 07-04-2016   #1
witttom
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Question Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

I sold my GS750 a couple weeks ago to a guy in the Louisville Kentucky area. He drove up, handed me the cash, we drove to my credit union, where I signed the Ohio title and had it notarized. He rode the bike home, with the notarized Ohio title in hand. I received a letter from him in the mail on Saturday, asking if I could sign an "Application for Kentucky Certificate of Title" and get my signature notarized. Gov't offices and banks closed on Sunday and today (July-4). Was hoping to get this squared away tomorrow if possible, because I head out Wednesday morning on some extensive travels and will be gone for a few weeks.

The applications is a bit confusing for me, and I'm not 100% certain as to where I am suppose to sign as the seller. It has a section for the seller information (name, address, etc) but no place to sign next to it. There is a clear break in the application, and then below that is a place for Lessee name, address, etc... and then below that is a spot for two seller signatures. That sure looks like those signature spots belong to the lessee information, and to the right of that is lien holder information. I do not consider myself a lessee, which is where the seller signature is requested, I think... maybe. That's the part that is confusing to me.

Am I suppose to sign below the lessee info?

I have bought/sold/traded bikes to/from Kentucky for many many years. I do not recall ever having to sign one of these. What do Kentucky buyers normally do when they buy a vehicle from out of State? ...from a private seller? ...from eBay? ..or a public auction? Do they always expect sellers to fill this out? What is a buyer suppose to do if he does NOT get this info from me? I'm trying my best to get this sorted out before I leave town, but I'm about to disappear for a few weeks, and I don't have any contact info for this buyer, other than the return address on the envelope I just received from him.
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Old 07-04-2016   #2
DICE32
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

Tom, call me to discuss....I'm home for the rest of the day....859-534-0835.
Probably got the answer for you, cause I deal with the Ky clerk of courts nightmare all the time.
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Old 07-04-2016   #3
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

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Tom, call me to discuss....I'm home for the rest of the day....859-534-0835.
Probably got the answer for you, cause I deal with the Ky clerk of courts nightmare all the time.
I was able to get in touch with him. We chatted about it and both agreed that the seller signature spot is in an odd location on the form and that Kentucky is stupid. He also understands that if I can't get this done tomorrow, or if I fill it out incorrectly, that he will have to wait until I get back to get it sorted. I may still give you a call a bit later when I get the chance.
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Old 07-04-2016   #4
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

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Originally Posted by witttom View Post
...head out Wednesday morning on some extensive travels and will be gone for a few weeks.

...but I'm about to disappear for a few weeks...
Going for a walkabout, are you? Solo? Or taking your criminal alter-ego TB with you?
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Old 07-04-2016   #5
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

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Originally Posted by icantdrive55 View Post
Going for a walkabout, are you? Solo? Or taking your criminal alter-ego TB with you?
It's... umm... complicated.
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Old 07-04-2016   #6
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

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It's... umm... complicated.
Ahh. Very mysterious. Just managing to stay one step ahead of the bill collectors? Blown your cover in the witness protection program? Be sure to write and let us know when you're settled in. #becausewecare

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Old 07-04-2016   #7
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

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Originally Posted by icantdrive55 View Post
Ahh. Very mysterious. Just managing to stay one step ahead of the bill collectors? Blown your cover in the witness protection program? Be sure to write and let us know when you're settled in. #becausewecare

It's kind of a globetrotting thing that's been in the works for a couple years. Athens for a few days, Mykonos, Rhodes, Santorini, Ephesus. Istanbul was scratched off the list a few days ago. More Athens, then a few days in Munich, a few days in Salzburg. Ed Buelsing was trying to help me with some two-wheel planning while I'm in the Alps, but my schedule and zig-zag travels have proven to be rather sketchy and constantly evolving. The logistics was proving to be not only difficult, but excessively expensive. Those plans got thrown out the window. So, while I'm in Salzburg, I will keep my options open and if I see the opportunity to ride up into the Alps for a day I will, but I'm not holding my breath. Was also hoping to catch the Sachsenring MotoGP race on the 17th, but a change in one of my flights threw me off by a single day and it was simply no longer possible to make it without creating a major domino effect. Selling my GS750, a Triumph engine, my left kidney, and three pints of blood is helping pay for the travels, but most of the expense is being picked up by an in-law who is making the bigger decisions. It's complicated.
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Old 07-04-2016   #8
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

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Originally Posted by witttom View Post
It's kind of a globetrotting thing that's been in the works for a couple years. Athens for a few days, Mykonos, Rhodes, Santorini, Ephesus. Istanbul was scratched off the list a few days ago. More Athens, then a few days in Munich, a few days in Salzburg.

Selling my GS750, a Triumph engine, my left kidney, and three pints of blood is helping pay for the travels, but most of the expense is being picked up by an in-law who is making the bigger decisions. It's complicated.
Wow!!! Very cool. Also very jealous. Lastly, these kinds of in-laws are the BEST KIND of in-laws....unless, of course, they're the ones getting the kidney. I know, I know. It's complicated.

Have a blast and take pics for us home-bound folks.
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Old 07-05-2016   #9
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

Schek BMW in Wangen, Germany will rent you a brand new GS for 39 EUR per day plus 0.40 EUR/km. Yes, this is ridiculously cheap. I've done two self-guided Alps tours on their bikes, one in 2009 and one in 2013. I have no idea why people drop $5k on Edelweiss bullshit only to ride with turtles and stay in tourist traps. The Schek guys speak English but knowing some German is certainly helpful. They are in the Allgaeu region of southeastern Baden-Wuerttemburg and it sounds like you'll be real close by:


http://www.motorrad-schek.de/
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Old 07-05-2016   #10
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

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Schek BMW in Wangen, Germany will rent you a brand new GS for 39 EUR per day plus 0.40 EUR/km. Yes, this is ridiculously cheap. I've done two self-guided Alps tours on their bikes, one in 2009 and one in 2013. I have no idea why people drop $5k on Edelweiss bullshit only to ride with turtles and stay in tourist traps. The Schek guys speak English but knowing some German is certainly helpful. They are in the Allgaeu region of southeastern Baden-Wuerttemburg and it sounds like you'll be real close by:


http://www.motorrad-schek.de/
That looks to be about 160km from Munich. Not sure if I'll have the opportunity to break away while I'm there. Would much rather find an option like this closer to Salzburg, but this is a very good suggestion. Thanks a bunch. I will take this info with me and play it by ear. Thnx!
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Old 07-05-2016   #11
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

No problem, good luck and have fun!
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Old 07-05-2016   #12
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

Notary at my bank felt that the line for the seller signature on the application was in an inappropriate location, that the form was not laid out well, did not provide enough room for a notary stamp despite requesting one, and that Kentucky is stupid. Nevertheless, task accomplished.
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Old 07-05-2016   #13
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

What you said KY wants on their form makes no sense. The Ohio title has an official area on the back for this exact information: seller signature, notary stamp, buyer information. No clue why filling out the back of the title wouldn't satisfy KY.
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Old 07-05-2016   #14
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

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Originally Posted by icantdrive55 View Post
What you said KY wants on their form makes no sense. The Ohio title has an official area on the back for this exact information: seller signature, notary stamp, buyer information. No clue why filling out the back of the title wouldn't satisfy KY.
That's actually my #1 complaint with this form. It is redundant to everything on the back of the title (as you mentioned).

Does this prevent a Kentucky buyer from say... buying an out-of-state bike (or other vehicle) with an open title that has been previously signed and notarized by the seller, but the seller is now no longer around?

Does Kentucky think that a seller outside of Kentucky is going to willfully volunteer to fill out this form? Is a Kentucky buyer capable of making a seller fill out this form? If an eBay seller sells a vehicle to a Kentucky buyer, is it their responsibility to provide anything more than a sign (and notarized, if required in that state) title to the buyer?

It's just dumb.
...and redundant.
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Old 07-05-2016   #15
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Re: Kentucky Out-of-State Title Transfers

Tom, if every instruction in the following rules are not done exactly as noted, then the Kentucky BMV will reject it from the state of Ohio. Indiana for some reason has a reciprical aggreement with Kentucky, and the title does not even have to be notorized by either party, so go figure. I've got BMV horror stories, as does many others in the state of Kentucky, and I've literally seen grown men cry before, & escorted out the door by an officer.


Ohio Vehicle Titles
This document is very often completed incorrectly for private sales between individuals, resulting in the need (and expense) to obtain a duplicate title. Important points to remember:

Do not complete any of the spaces, or sign the title, until the notary is present. Any erasures or other alterations to the title WILL VOID IT!

Make certain the deal is going to be completed before executing the Assignment of Ownership. The buyer does not need to be present for the seller to complete the Assignment section; but, the seller must have the name and address of the buyer in order to complete the section and have their signature notarized.
All signers must personally appear before the notary! NO exceptions! They must sign exactly as their name appears on the front of the title as the vehicle owner. If multiple owners, both must sign, akthough not necessarily at the same time. One owner can be notarized separately if necessary, in another location and separate date. A loose jurat certificate must be attached to the title document for the second notarization.
If the owner has had a name change, they may sign the document Mary Smith FKA Mary Jones. FKA means Formerly Known As, and shows that both names are the same person. The signer must provide ID in their current name.
Both the Assignment of Ownership and Application for Title sections are SWORN statements by the signers, that the information they are providing for the title transfer is truthful and correct. This includes the buyer’s name, the odometer reading, and the ACTUAL sales price. The two sections can be completed separately, but each signer must be ID’d, given an oath/affirmation, and sign in the presence of the notary; the signature cannot be acknowledged days or weeks after it was executed.

The Assignment of Ownership section signature(s) cannot be notarized with any blank spaces on the section.

Note that there is no such thing as an “open” title for a private sale. The seller cannot just sign over the title to the buyer, and have it notarized later.
Again, the seller MUST appear, show ID, complete all spaces, be sworn, and sign before the notary. This is the reason the state requires notaries for this process – to prevent fraud. Otherwise, someone could steal a title document, forge a signature as the seller, and then acquire a new title. The only exception to this is if the signer has executed a Power of Attorney form permitting a third party to act and sign on his/her behalf. This POA form is available at all BMV locations or their website, and must also have a notarized signature.
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