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Old 12-21-2010   #1
WOZERD
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OT (kinda) Net freedom

IS it too late? Every once in awhile, I would see e-mails FWD multiple times warning about the government intervening in the internet. I paid very little attention and decided to do something or worry about it "tomorrow".
Well, maybe I should have done something (what can you do? Call your congressman and let them know how you feel-- your message left on an answering machine that self erases every half hour? Or, write/e-mail your representative only to get a form letter response thanking you for writing because the letter shredding volunteer was getting bored or the person whose job it was to click delete on the computer was running out of things to do?
Today is the day-- Today we lose the last bastion of free communication around the world.
Well, almost around the world. There are places I suppose-- like China, North Korea, and most Middle Eastern countries have control of the internet either outright or by denying the technology to their population. I noticed Hugo, that wonderful, kind and benevolent master of Venezuela who, I must admit, was democratically elected by promising to give the ignorant poor all the luxuries in life that the educated (evil) rich enjoy ( I think he's still working on it-- shutting down TV and radio stations that didn't say what he wanted them to say) has come out in favor of this ruling.
Maybe we can't blame our representatives too much. Apparently the majority of them signed a letter asking the FCC not to do this. Matter of fact, there's a court ruling against the FCC on this matter. But, in their wisdom, apparently, an unelected group of people have decided to go ahead. They are, in a sense, going to regulate the internet service providers-- just like they regulate what gets broadcast on TV. If I read it right, they gave the ISP's a choice of that or breaking them up like they did the phone companies (remember Ma Bell-- and cheap phone service?).
We won't notice much at first. I'll still be able to talk to some Bloke in Australia, I'll still be able to chat on a forum with someone from South Africa and most important, I'll still be able to open and admire a picture of a nice set of boobies from a friend.
For now.
If this ruling by the FCC is allowed to stand, what's to stop them from pressuring the ISP's to block the boobie pictures, stop me from arguing politics with someone in Germany or telling a girl in South Korea how to adjust her motorcycle chain?
NOTHING.
It must be noted that a certain Illinois Senator was in favor of this and advocated it during his campaign speeches when he ran for President.
And, you have to ask yourself-- why are they doing this? The internet has been free of government interference since it's inception and it's working (surprise!!) just fine. There is no problem to fix. But the FCC insist it must do this to fix a non existent problem.
Again you must ask--why? Why regulate the free exchange of ideas, communication and commerce? Who on earth would want to do that (besides totalitarian dictators and religious zealots)?


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...250748540.html
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Old 12-21-2010   #2
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

The Fed & the FCC: wielding the sword of the watery tart for years.
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Old 12-21-2010   #3
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

ISPs aren't playing nice, Bob, which is why the FCC is getting involved. The WSJ article is a little one-sided.

We can all understand and appreciate the concept of 'net-neutrality' - the internet should be unhindered by the whims of an ISP.

Recently, Comcast demanded an extra fee from Level III to deliver Netflix data over its network - this is unheard of in the ISP world. All of the top level ISP have peerage agreements to exchange like data. Of course, Comcast played this card because of their own VOD service which competes directly with Netflix.

You know the backstory to this FCC mandate right? A few years ago, Comcast started blocking peer-to-peer data on its network - again, data that should be allowed to go it's own way on the 'tubes if you're a paying consumer. The FCC asked Comcast to stop doing this, and unfortunately, an Appeals court sided with Comcast and said the FCC over-stepped its bounds. Which brings us to today...

What the FCC is proposing (you can read it here: http://www.openinternet.gov/speech-r...-openness.html) isn't half as bad as what the WSJ article insinuates.

Net Neutrality keeps the status quo of ISPs not picking and choosing what customers can access. This ISP interference must be nipped in the bud and obviously they aren't willing to do it themselves and must be compelled to do it. The FCC is looking out for the consumer - otherwise, the day may come when you pay your home internet bill, but also need to pay a separate fee to every other network that you traverse.

John

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Old 12-21-2010   #4
WOZERD
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

John, that sheds more light on this-- thanks. But, still, I disagree with what the FCC is doing ( I think we all should). The reason is quite simple and the results are documented in any area that the government gets into.
The "fix" for Comcasts transgressions is simple-- drop them. Go to another ISP. In an open and free market, competition punishes and rewards those that deserve it.
With the FCC getting their foot in the door, you may, one day, find you have no choice.
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Old 12-21-2010   #5
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOZERD View Post
John, that sheds more light on this-- thanks. But, still, I disagree with what the FCC is doing ( I think we all should). The reason is quite simple and the results are documented in any area that the government gets into.
The "fix" for Comcasts transgressions is simple-- drop them. Go to another ISP. In an open and free market, competition punishes and rewards those that deserve it.
With the FCC getting their foot in the door, you may, one day, find you have no choice.
That's the problem Bob, you can't drop Comcast, or Level III. They're a backbone provider - what you're experiencing right now on the internet very well may be originating from their network. If they decide they don't like to pass Netflix VOD traffic and your local ISP peers from them, guess what? You don't get your Netflix, and neither does anyone else who uses them, either as a local provider or as part of their backbone.

The whole idea behind network neutrality is that we like the internet how it is. NETWORK NEUTRALITY MERELY MAKES SURE THE INTERNET STAYS OPEN AS IT IS TODAY, just like everybody likes. It doesn't change the status quo. It ensures the status quo that we've grown so fond of. It's not a government takeover - it's a rule to keep the internet just like it is today. The current system of net neutrality has worked for nearly 20 years. All these rules would do is ensure that it stays that way, fostering continued innovation and competition.

Bob, I know you like to rail against the government, but Government nanny-stating isn't the issue here. It's Comcast (and other ISPs) not playing fair.


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Old 12-21-2010   #6
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

The flipside is that Comcast should be able to charge Level III according to bandwidth usage, and with Netflix as their client, Level III is a major user. Good or bad, ISPs will eventually be regulated like public utilities. It may not be the best situation for open competition, but the infrastructure required to deliver all the data we desire means you are only going to have a limited number of major suppliers to choose from.
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Old 12-21-2010   #7
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdanhires View Post
Bob, I know you like to rail against the government, but Government nanny-stating isn't the issue here. It's Comcast (and other ISPs) not playing fair.
There are some other BIG contenders in the mix too. I know you said 'other ISPs' and that's true, but some of those other ISPs are much more than just ISPs (and BIG players with a LOT to gain across multiple levels). What am I saying... umm... nothing more, just adding an exclamation point I guess.
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Old 12-21-2010   #8
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

Well, who gave Comcast all that authority? 2 guesses, the first one doesn't count.
and, I don't agree with Newt either. New technology could allow us to increase our usage. That is, if the government doesn't place rules in place stifling breakthroughs and protecting companies like Comcast.
We can get the internet from satillites and via wireless transmissions. Comcast's "backbone" status came about during a time when they had to string or bury lines to reach the consumer.

We'll see!
Hope you're right. (but, according to what's being written in editorials and broadcast on various channels. It's not being received in the light you say it is. And, 300+ Senators and Representatives are against it-- for some reason!)
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Old 12-21-2010   #9
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

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Originally Posted by WOZERD View Post
We can get the internet from satillites and via wireless transmissions. Comcast's "backbone" status came about during a time when they had to string or bury lines to reach the consumer.
No offense Boob, but I don't think you're quite grasping the backbone concept.
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Old 12-21-2010   #10
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

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Originally Posted by casanewt View Post
The flipside is that Comcast should be able to charge Level III according to bandwidth usage, and with Netflix as their client, Level III is a major user. Good or bad, ISPs will eventually be regulated like public utilities. It may not be the best situation for open competition, but the infrastructure required to deliver all the data we desire means you are only going to have a limited number of major suppliers to choose from.
Problem is Newt, that's not how the internet traditionally works with regards to peering. What Comcast did is akin to a hobo charging you to get off the highway and into your town.

And you're right - in the end the major backbone providers are essentially a common carrier and should be regulated as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wozerd
We can get the internet from satillites and via wireless transmissions. Comcast's "backbone" status came about during a time when they had to string or bury lines to reach the consumer.
And Bob, how do you think the internets get to those wireless access points and sats?

Regarding the 300 congressmen against it....not so much.
http://www.publicknowledge.org/blog/...rs-congress-op

John

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Old 12-21-2010   #11
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

FWIW I think the rules adopted today by the FCC are very weak, and not as strong as they need to be, especially when it comes to wireless internet access.



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Old 12-21-2010   #12
WOZERD
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

Geesh John-- go away will ya? You're making me look bad!

But-- as to this question?:
Quote:
And Bob, how do you think the internets get to those wireless access points and sats?
I have the answer to that!

PFM!!

Still, you watch--it's like every thing else-- once they get their nose in the door...............
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Old 12-22-2010   #13
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

I like toast.






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Old 12-22-2010   #14
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

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I like toast.

DR
LOL, you were supposed to say "ROTELLA"
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Old 12-22-2010   #15
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Re: OT (kinda) Net freedom

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Originally Posted by WOZERD View Post
Geesh John-- go away will ya? You're making me look bad!
...and he's not even trying that hard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DBR0051 View Post
I like toast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thom_boles View Post
LOL, you were supposed to say "ROTELLA"
Toast, WITH Rotella. Breakfast of champions.
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